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Free Choice or Predestination -2- by Nayzak Free Choice or Predestination -2- by Nayzak
Assalaamu alaikum [peace be to you],

first part:

Sorry. Long article. couldn't cut it in half.


:bulletred: A QUESTION:

A questioner asks:
"I am confused. If The God has already decided my destiny including my belief then how do I have free choice? if the God has chosen me not to be among the believers or the non-believers then I do not have any choice?"


:bulletred:ANSWER:

This important question, about whether man has free choice or not, have perplexed many amongst mankind and it is of paramount importance to understand and comprehend the reality of the matter of fate or destiny, and the test of the application of the faculty of intelligence and the free choice which The Almighty God has bestowed on mankind as a test, the outcome or result of which will determine the state of the person in the eternal life of the Hereafter.

We would just like to clarify here what is the actual reality of Fate or Destiny. To get a fuller understanding of Fate, it can be divided into two parts:

Part-1: One part of Fate is things over which the person has absolutely no control. For example, Whether one will be born male or female, what will his provision be, and what day, date and place he will die. These are the Decisions and Decrees of Allah Alone, and no matter what a person does, he cannot change his Decreed sex from male to female, or change his appointment with death, etc. On all such Decrees of the Creator where man has absolutely no control, he will neither be questioned regarding these Decrees of the God, nor will he be held accountable in the least for the fulfillment of any of these Decisions of the God.

Part-2: The second part of fate is not a Decision or Decree from the God, but is the Absolute and Perfect Knowledge of the All-Knowing, All-Wise Lord. For example, it is written down before one is born whether he will be a good or evil person: but it is not as if Allah (I seek refuge in Allah from saying this) is unjust, and has already condemned someone to be evil, so he has to become evil!!! Because Allah is the All Knowing, He already knows from His Absolute Knowledge and Wisdom, what the person with the given free choice and intelligence will do in the future; and thus what is written is not a Decision from the God, but rather a documentation of the Absolute and Perfect Knowledge of the God.

In whatever thing man has absolutely no control or choice to choose, he will not be held accountable for them in the Just and Supreme Court of the Almighty God; but in whatever things man has a choice or a free choice to choose amongst several options, he will be held accountable for choosing that option.

To understand and comprehend the true concept of Fate and Destiny, one must learn to appreciate the difference between the Lord All-Mighty being the All-Knowing and His being the All-Just!

Fate or Destiny is nothing more than the documentation of the Absolute and Perfect Knowledge of our Lord All-Mighty of the conditions and the choice each in creation will make, which He Commanded to be written and preserved even before the creation of anything in the Heavens and the earth! Allah is not bound by the dimension of time, as His Perfect and Absolute Knowledge comprehends and envelopes everything of the past, the present, and the future!


from [link] with little changes


IT IS NOT FINISHED YET. -I just didn't want to make a very long article-. please read the continuation here:




I hope this was beneficial


If I am right, it is from the God. if I am wrong, it is from myself.
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:iconkanamefujiwara:
KanameFujiwara Featured By Owner Dec 22, 2012
Interesting... I've always thought that when good things happen it is Allah's will while bad things happen it is because of us.... am I wrong?

TQ
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:iconhanciong:
hanciong Featured By Owner Nov 30, 2012  Hobbyist Digital Artist
The second part of fate is not a Decision or Decree from the God, but is the Absolute and Perfect Knowledge of the All-Knowing, All-Wise Lord. For example, it is written down before one is born whether he will be a good or evil person
so he knows someone will be evil and punished in hell, but god still creates him. is that merciful? what is his purpose for creating such person?
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:iconnayzak:
Nayzak Featured By Owner Nov 30, 2012
The Almighty God didn't create such a person to be evil.
he created him because he is the Creator. a Creator creates things. the God is Creator, therefore, he creates things.
The God is not questioned about what he does. he questions us about what we do.

the fact that the person chooses to become evil shows the great freedom the God gave us. we can even disobey him and stand against his commandments. but this does not mean we can escape his judgment.

peace.
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:iconhanciong:
hanciong Featured By Owner Nov 30, 2012  Hobbyist Digital Artist
I only ask whether this is consistent with "all gracious, all merciful" or not.
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:iconnayzak:
Nayzak Featured By Owner Nov 30, 2012
you need to ask if it is consistent with All-Just as well.
You also need to ask if it is consistent with the divine test requirements.

now let's say the God intervened and stopped the rapist. alright, you will say the God is Merciful on the woman. I agree.
now there is a boy in the backyard of his house who is about to step on an ant. well, killing a soul is greater than rape, do you expect the God to also come and stop him out of his mercy towards ants?
there is someone who forgot to feed his hamster while away on vacation. do you expect the God to come and feed him out of his mercy?
in the Savannah, a lion is about to attack a zebra. do you expect the God to come and save the Zebra out of his mercy?
A poor man is begging and some people pass by and do not help him. do we expect the God to come and give him money as a mercy?
a student is about to cheat in his exam by looking at his deskmate's answers. therefore, the God would come and stop him. why? because that shows his mercy towards the hardworking student. right?

come on.

if the God shows up and stops us whenever we are about to err, then where is our free choice?

you really need to understand the nature of the divine test.
The God gave us a gift. a dangerous gift called 'free choice'. with this gift, we can choose what to do. of course, what we choose may or may not happen. but still we have the freedom to decide what we want to do. but with this gift there is responsibility. and the God will reward us according to our intentions. the God does not bother us when we want to do something. although he may make us 'feel' that we are doing something wrong (thus the feeling of guilt) the bad events that happen in our life are part of the test. just like a movie can not be said to be good or bad before seeing its ending, life also. things are evaluated from their endings. and I believe the rapist and the victim will get the just and fair reward/punishment.

another example:
someone may be struck by calamity. he suffers a lot. he calls the God for help.
now the God may say "let's delay our help and see if my servant will still believe in me in spite of his suffering. let's test his faith"
if the man keeps his firm belief, the God may remove the suffering and give him great reward in this world and the latter.
if the God decides not to remove the suffering, then he will give him greater rewards in the hereafter. in all cases, the one who keeps his faith in the God will be rewarded.
if, in the other hand, the man loses his faith, then it is his loss. but the God will not give up in the man until the last moment of his life. and this is God's mercy.

of course, the person who does not believe in the God and does not understand God's mercy and justice and his divine plan will have difficulty understanding this concept. because they are only thinking with the mind that this life is all the deal.

peace
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:iconhanciong:
hanciong Featured By Owner Dec 1, 2012  Hobbyist Digital Artist
you need to ask if it is consistent with All-Just as well.
why all just need to create bad people? if he only creates good people, and everyone is rewarded heaven, than that's also just. if everyone is good people, but some people are punished in hell, THAT is unjust.

now there is a boy in the backyard of his house who is about to step on an ant. well, killing a soul is greater than rape, do you expect the God to also come and stop him out of his mercy towards ants?....in the Savannah, a lion is about to attack a zebra. do you expect the God to come and save the Zebra out of his mercy?....if the God shows up and stops us whenever we are about to err, then where is our free choice?...
remember, god doesn't need to stop anything. as you said, each person, bad or good, has choice. god doesn't force someone to be good or bad. ok then, he simply creates good people, with free choice. what's wrong with that? he just writes it with "the Pen" that the ant will not die. that the zebra will not die. he can even NOT create lions or other carnivores, so that no animal should die to sustain life of other animals. he can create all herbivores, or even all like plants, which can life from anorganic materials. why not create such universe? why have to create a zebra, then create a lion just to catch and kill this zebra? why have to create a caterpillar, and create wasp so that its larva can eat the caterpillar alive, slowly? for humans, you might "avoid" the complication by saying humans suffering is a test. but for animals, what is the purpose of their sufferings?

The God gave us a gift. a dangerous gift called 'free choice'. with this gift, we can choose what to do. of course, what we choose may or may not happen. but still we have the freedom to decide what we want to do.
create only good people which always choose goodness, no matter what happens.

if, in the other hand, the man loses his faith, then it is his loss. don't create such people.

I hope you see what I mean.
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:iconnayzak:
Nayzak Featured By Owner Dec 1, 2012
why all just need to create bad people?
Already answered.

if he only creates good people, and everyone is rewarded heaven, than that's also just.
No. that's not justice. that's what YOU, hanciong, assume to be justice.
now let's say, in school, all students are bright and smart. what's the purpose of the exams? since all will succeed and get high marks. right? is this justice for you?
by definition, Justice is the concept of a proper proportion between a person’s deserts (what is merited) and the good and bad things that befall or are allotted to him or her. [link]
If you say "only creates good people, and everyone is rewarded heaven" then where is free choice? where is the test? what is the purpose of creation? everything is messed up. and there is no meaning of life.
Know that we do not dictate to the God what and how he should create things. he creates and he sets the rules as he wills. he is just in the fact that he will never punish you for what you didn't do. and he will multiply your rewards if you do good. isn't this enough? perhaps you want a servant instead of a God (a'uthu billah - I seek refuge with the God from such thoughts)
what you are doing is just trying to bring excuses not to believe in the God instead of trying to find ways to succeed in the test. you are just like those who do not want to work hard in the exam, but they want to get an A or A+ and call it justice.

if everyone is good people, but some people are punished in hell, THAT is unjust.
By which standards? hanciong's perhaps?
you are free to think what you want. but I see your understanding of justice different from the definition I find in the dictionary. but you can stick to your definition of justice which does not make sense. that's your free choice given to you by the God..

create only good people which always choose goodness, no matter what happens.
you don't dictate to the God what/how he creates.

don't create such people.
you don't dictate to the God what/how he creates.

being good or being bad is something we choose to be. the God did not make us bad or good. he gave us the ability to choose. and he shows us the two ways. it is like you are in a hall and there are a thousand doors. I tell you: "this green door here leads to a beautiful garden. but in all other red doors there is a monster. so don't open them." now you go and open a random door and claim that it was my fault for your damnation. this is nonsensical. you got a warning, you gotta take it seriously.
similarly, you get a warning about the hereafter and judgment, you gotta take it seriously.

now let's take you as an example. you agree that are not compelled to believe in the God, and you are also not compelled to disbelieve in him.
if you believe in him and worship him alone and do good, you make yourself a good person, and by God's mercy, you will be fairly rewarded for the good you did.
if you arrogantly and proudly disbelieve in him and deliberately disobey him and do evil, then you make yourself a bad person and, for your own deeds, you will be fairly punished. you can't complain and say "why did God create me?" because the questioning will not be done by you in judgment day, it will be done by the God and the question he will be asking you is "why you chose to be a bad person"
this is a rhetorical question. you needn't answer it. just think and ponder.

You are just like that other guy. instead of arguing about punishment and hell, you should first be arguing about the existence of the God. You know, if you do not believe in the God, then you are really wasting time. because no matter how sense this will makes, it will do you no good because you deny God's existence to begin with.
there are priorities when it comes to questioning religion...

peace
Reply
:iconhanciong:
hanciong Featured By Owner Dec 1, 2012  Hobbyist Digital Artist
now let's say, in school, all students are bright and smart. what's the purpose of the exams? since all will succeed and get high marks. right? is this justice for you?
strange. so you prefer if some of the students are failed? if you become a teacher, I will feel pity for your student. For me, I would like if all my students pass my test. I would prefer if all students are smart.

If you say "only creates good people, and everyone is rewarded heaven" then where is free choice? where is the test? what is the purpose of creation? everything is messed up. and there is no meaning of life.
again, so you prefer if in some society, there are bad people? Thank God you are not part of some government. also, you said that if everyone is rewarded heaven, it is a messed up and there is no meaning of life. seriously??? so, life only has meaning if some people are damned in hell?? so if some people are bad and punished in hell, that's better? that's less messed up? why there is no purpose of creation is everyone is good and rewarded heaven? I will give you one: God is love, and He is happy. and He wants to share His happiness with His creation. that's one purpose. there might be other purpose which I don't know.

Know that we do not dictate to the God what and how he should create things. he creates and he sets the rules as he wills. he is just in the fact that he will never punish you for what you didn't do. and he will multiply your rewards if you do good. isn't this enough?
the same question could be asked to you. why you don't follow Christianity? in Christianity, you need to believe "something". isn't this enough to you? other religions are humans try reaching to God. Christianity is God reaching to humans. isn't this enough to you? how will you answer such question? my answer will be similar to yours. NOTE: I am NOT a Christian, and this is not some support to Christian.

perhaps you want a servant instead of a God... if you arrogantly and proudly disbelieve in him and deliberately disobey him and do evil, then you make yourself a bad person and, for your own deeds, you will be fairly punished.....
wrong. you always assume that if someone disbelief in God, that's because of arrogance. that's a wrong assumption. other people also can accuse you to be arrogant because not believe in "Christian's god", for example. how will you answer such accusation? my answer will be similar to yours. let me tell you something. I belief in God, but NOT your conception of God. please notice the difference. in fact, I do give thanks to God for everything happens in my life.
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:iconnayzak:
Nayzak Featured By Owner Dec 1, 2012
strange. so you prefer if some of the students are failed?
No. I prefer that each student gets according to their work. that's called justice.

if you become a teacher, I will feel pity for your student. For me, I would like if all my students pass my test. I would prefer if all students are smart.
but that's not always the case. a teacher who you makes all bad students succeed in spite of not deserving it is unfair and unjust. it's like the judge who does not punish the criminals.

again, so you prefer if in some society, there are bad people?
No I don't prefer. are you twisting my words. are you misunderstanding me on purpose?
I don't prefer to have bad people. but following the good way or the bad way are results of the free choice we are gifted with. the God would not give us a gift (free choice) then he turns back and restrain our choice by not allowing us to do what we want. that's not godly.

Thank God you are not part of some government.
I wouldn't want to be part of any government. it's a big burden that I wouldn't want to carry it's weigh on judgment day.

also, you said that if everyone is rewarded heaven, it is a messed up and there is no meaning of life. seriously??? so, life only has meaning if some people are damned in hell??
Man, You are misquoting me. what I said was:
"If you say "only creates good people, and everyone is rewarded heaven" then where is free choice? where is the test? what is the purpose of creation? everything is messed up. and there is no meaning of life."
By twisting my words and selecting what you pick up, you can never understand a simple sentence.
the meaning of life is in purpose for which we have to lead our lives and the divine test in which we have to succeed. the meaning of life is not in the punishment or reward like you are claiming that I said. punishment and reward are consequences of our deeds in the test. they are not a purpose, they are a result.
a good advice to you: if you do not understand what I say, ask and I will explain, in sha'Allah.

so if some people are bad and punished in hell, that's better?
who said that? I didn't say that.

why there is no purpose of creation is everyone is good and rewarded heaven? I will give you one: God is love, and He is happy. and He wants to share His happiness with His creation. that's one purpose. there might be other purpose which I don't know.
My friend, you don't seem to understand the meaning of the English word 'purpose'.
I ask: why I am here? what should I do? what's my purpose.
and your answer is: 'God is love'. is this an answer to the question?
or you answer: 'God is happy'. is this an answer?
or: 'He wants to share his happiness with his creation.' what is this? are we speaking the same language?
seriously. regardless of what you believe or whether you are right or not, if you answer like this to the question "what is our purpose in life?" you get a zero.
I ask what is our purpose and you throw random statements of what you believe God does. I am not asking about God's purpose. I am asking about mine. what should I do in my life?
hold on. don't answer me. I do not need mere opinions. I need convincing truth based on God's word, scripture. if you have an answer, please write an article (in your page) about the purpose of life and back it up with your proofs from your scripture and let me see it. I will only consider it if it makes more sense than what Islam does. :D

the same question could be asked to you. why you don't follow Christianity? in Christianity, you need to believe "something". isn't this enough to you?
Without proof it is not enough. why do you think I am Muslim? it's because Islam gives me the answers and proof of what it claims. there are many religions in the world. and for me, Islam is the only one that makes everything clear, simple and makes sense. you may disagree. that's up to you and I do not ask you about what you believe.

other religions are humans try reaching to God. Christianity is God reaching to humans. isn't this enough to you? how will you answer such question?
Well, in my opinion, there are two ways to see religions:
1- man trying to reach God. these are man-made religions and if I had to follow such religion, why should I follow others? I could make my own and worship the God in my way. but the problem is that I have no guarantee because I am just like the blind who tries to cross the highway.
2- God reaching man. this is the divine religion. there was only one since the beginning. but with time, the past versions were corrupted and changed into new religions and only one remains in its original form: Islam.
If you tell me God reaches us in Christianity, I could say the same about Islam. he reaches us without the need of blood or sacrifice. without the need to come down on earth and without the need of be murdered by his own creation. between 2 religions where God is reaching us, I prefer to follow the one that makes more sense to me.

you always assume that if someone disbelief in God, that's because of arrogance. that's a wrong assumption. other people also can accuse you to be arrogant because not believe in "Christian's god", for example. how will you answer such accusation?
I will answer like this:
prove to me your god is the true God and I am ready to believe right away.

I belief in God, but NOT your conception of God. please notice the difference. in fact, I do give thanks to God for everything happens in my life.
Alright, you believe in God. I believe in God. cool. at least we have something in common.
you say your understanding of the God is different from mine. alright, no problem.
may I ask, what is your religion? I just want to put things in perspective.

peace
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(1 Reply)
:iconhanciong:
hanciong Featured By Owner Nov 30, 2012  Hobbyist Digital Artist
also, related to my above question, why not only create good people? remember, according to you, this is not violation to free will. simply because god knows someone will be good, doesn't mean that he forces him to be good. ok then, create only the good people. why he is not doing that?
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